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tbtrakh (tbaby)
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Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3391
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 09:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So now he's got hypothyroidism. And ibd and food allergies and separation anxiety. Why???
Although his stomach has been a lot better since I took him off most of the meds and he's been eating more stuff with no diarrhea.
All he does is sleep and won't play unless it's his best buddies and I kind of force him to. Nicely of course. At least he's not running off anymore. No energy I guess.
I have hypothyroidism too so I guess I know how he feels.
Vet said it's not environmental but I wonder.
Or is he just a genetic mess? Last dog had no issues til age eleven except when my mare stepped on him. That was my fault.

One cat needs surgery (insurance won't cover so I can't afford). Other cat getting allergy shots he's allergic to everything.
Dog has everything under the sun.

Old horse is good but on expensive meds and suppliments.
Young horse good but sitting there costing money. Need to lease him but no bites.

I'm tempted to just drive out to southern California and be homeless on the beach with all of them. Too expensive!
Thank God I got pet insurance for the dog and cats.
Sorry this is a question but a rant slipped in. :-) Wish I was rich. I love my animals but every one of them has something.
At least this has cured me from taking in any more animals. But I want a little female black kitten lol. No way for now though. Not til I get a six figure job and am completely debt free. Which will never happen.
Any insight on hypothyroidism in young dogs? Causes? Does this mean he's aging fast and won't live long? I got a shelter mutt hoping he'd be healthy and live long like my last dog.
He gained ten pounds in a couple of months despite only eating one cup of dry food and a large can a day (for an eighty five pound dog), sleeps all day and night, won't play with me or other dogs which he usually loved doing and had three uncharacteristic episodes of aggression in three days in a row where he overreacted to two other dogs, one a female (he never fights with females but will walk or run away so this was a first in the two years I've had him) and jumped up at a guy and started barking in his face at the dog park. A dog owner he's seen dozens of times before and knows and never had any problems with before. Out of nowhere. And he won't eat unless i literally feed him and nag him to eat daily and watch him.
So I took him in and sure enough.
lss (lss)
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Username: lss

Post Number: 1533
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 06:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hypothyroidism is inherited.... As well as the allergies... He just got the short end of the stick with his genes....
The separation anxiety has a genetic component...
But- is definitely something that can and should be worked on in the socialization/training period in the first 12 weeks...
After that- of course it can be worked on- but much harder...
He missed the boat there too....

Sounds like your doing a great job dealing with all the cards you both were dealt though....

A lot of people crap on (not saying you) purebred// breeders....
But if they are doing things right- it really is your best bet for a healthy (in mind and body) dog....
It is hard to find those that do it right- but they are out there.
I'm a HUGE fan of puppyculture- and tell every breeder I meet about it .....even the ones that haven't heard of it are doing a lot of this stuff....
But between health testing breeding stock, and putting a lot of time and effort into the first 12 weeks- it is the best hope there is.

https://shoppuppyculture.com/collections/buy-dvds/products/dvd
tbtrakh (tbaby)
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Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3392
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 07:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have no problem with well bred purebreds. I did a ton of research and bred my mare to a top stallion to get my now gelding. He's much sounder, sturdier, healthier and low maintenance than she ever was and has a much more solid build and disposition so I did my research right and had a measure of luck. And put much time, effort and money into raising him right.
I'd love a purebred well bred German Shepherd from what I know of them, but I can't justify spending that kind of money on a dog when I spend so much on my horses already and there's so many healthy beautiful dogs suffering and dying in shelters and the streets every day. That's just me. I don't think breeds should just die out either so breeding responsibly should continue.
I chose to breed my horse because at the time I wanted to keep riding, showing and competing and I wanted a safe horse to do so with. Good bloodlines and soundness and sanity make safer horses for eventing, at least in my mind. My mare always kept me safe but she got inured a lot because her legs were much more delicate than her mind. She's always been very expensive to keep healthy and sound and I had to miss a lot of shows.
Many of my friends got purebred dogs at first and wound up heartbroken with expensive vet bills and short-lived dogs who weren't as well bred as advertised. Many of them now have shelter mutts and don't want to go through that again. I was hoping a mutt would have better chances of being healthier and sturdy longer like my last dog.
My cat is 13.5 and the surgery isn't for anything major, it's mainly cosmetic, he has blue benign growths in his ears but they're now so large they're bothering him and he needs pain meds or he hides and isolates, attacks the other cat and dog and won't eat. He's had no other health issues ever in all these years except a blockage when he ate the stuffing from a toy my dog destroyed before I could clean it.
The allergy cat I found as a stray kitten in Aruba so I'm not surprised he's allergic to so many things here since he's not from this area. Both are otherwise healthy, it's the young dog with all the issues.
My mare has always had a lot of stuff but she's almost 29 so its not surprising to me at this point.
dehda01 (dehda01)
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Username: dehda01

Post Number: 554
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 09:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The thyroid can also be out of whack with illness. Was it a full thyroid panel? There are some diseases that can MIMIC hypothyroidism, but not actually be hypothyroidism. He could also be an autoimmune related hypothyroidism case, with his IBD and allergies is a distinct possibility.
tbtrakh (tbaby)
Junior Member
Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3393
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know what tests they did. He has to take levothyroxine twice a day for a month and then redo bloodwork four to six hours after his med dose in a month. I hope they did the full testing but the vet didn't tell me.
He just started it today .
His ibd and food allergies seem to be pretty stable recently. He hasn't had diarrhea in weeks and overall he's been eating a bit better.
He managed to simultaneously open a bag of treats and steal one right out of one guy's pocket in a split second at the dog park today lol. And he's always begging everyone there daily for pets and treats. Will literally steal them from other dog's mouths.
tbtrakh (tbaby)
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Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3394
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can being on sertraline long term cause ibd or thyroid problems?
dehda01 (dehda01)
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Username: dehda01

Post Number: 555
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 06:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just googled a few quick pubmed articles that seem to find correlations with SSRIs(fluoxetine, sertaline) causing reductions in thyroid production in humans. They seem to be starting to feel it impacts humans, I could not find any direct dog ones but donít have the time to really do a full look at this time.
tbtrakh (tbaby)
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Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3395
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 08:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you! If it impacts humans, why wouldn't it affect dogs long-term too? But he's such a basket case if I even think about leaving his side, sigh ...

Thanks so much for looking, and for all your other information. Ir all describes him to a perfect T ...
dehda01 (dehda01)
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Username: dehda01

Post Number: 556
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 09:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dogs are not humans, and they do not metabolize medications in exactly the same way. You cannot directly assume humans and dogs will have the same same side effects.

That said, most SSRI use in dogs is considered off label. So we have not had a company running the full gamet if regulatory FDA testing on it. So we need to go by some human, ape and rat results and tweak as the animal requires. We have some general dosing ideas, but nothing set in stone.
ls27 (ls27)
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Username: ls27

Post Number: 730
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 01:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hypothyroidism is easily managed and my dog, diagnosed young cause yes it is hereditary- had no side effects... part of the reason that dogs are not as affected by drugs long term as humans is the shorter lifespan...
dehda01 (dehda01)
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Username: dehda01

Post Number: 557
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 08:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Humans actually metabolize levothyroxine in a much more sensitive way. People with hypothyroidism are maintained on a dose of typical of a very small dog. And have symptoms controlled and levels regulated into normal reference ranges. We are able to track side effects in humans slightly more effectively since they can communicate issues verbally.
tbtrakh (tbaby)
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Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3418
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2018 - 04:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he's been on the thyroid medication for just over two weeks and is eating a little better. Less nagging from me and eats two cups a day of dry food and a large can a day pretty consistently. No diarrhea or stomach issues except one day when he ate a can if cat food I was trying to get my post op cat to eat.
Has a bit more energy, jerk took off on an open field again to sniff every other dog there, including the ones he'd already met and didn't want to play with in the fenced in park, before remembering his name and deciding to come back to me. I was tempted to just get in the car and leave him there. Almost did but be bolted his rebellious runaway a$$ back just in time and caught me at the car. No treats for that.
Problem is he's not using his returning energy on a good way, he's regressed back into an adolescent hooligan thug. Now instead of playing with his dog buddies or dogs he used to ignore, he's deliberately provoking other dogs until they attack him and then not retreating like I trained him to but fighting back. Not really fighting, no blood drawn or marks or injuries, just a lot of drama and barking and showing teeth and it looks and sounds like a fighter, definitely not play. It's even females and one was his best buddy that he's never had a problem in two years.
To be fair, all the other dogs are dogs that have problems getting along with other dogs, but for over a year now I'd trained him very solidly to walk or run away from any conflicts and run to me for lots of treats, pets and praise. And he naturally never gought with any females but ran away anyway. It was mainly unneutered males and overconfident adolescents that tried to bully him that he'd defend himself with, not usually start fights.
Last week, his best female friend got into a nasty fight with another dog. Both of them can be aggressive over balls and toys and his friend had quite a few scratches on her but they were both pretty angry. After they separated, the buddy played with a poodle for a while and calmed down then started playing with my dog. They've never had a problem and always been very bonded. For some unknown reason this had to be the day he tries to hump her. I immediately yelled at him to get off and ran over but in a split second she just attacked, no warning no growling, zero to sixty. He didn't back off but fought back just as fiercely. He didn't leave any marks on her but had a tiny scrape or two.
Jackie Silverman (morskip)
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Username: morskip

Post Number: 1871
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2018 - 04:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How old is he?
tbtrakh (tbaby)
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Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3419
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2018 - 04:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Then yesterday this woman brought her two unneutered male boxers and of course a blue squeaky ball. He loves blue and squeaky balls more than anything. He doesn't like the boxers, they always growl at him but he's been in the park countless times with them and been fine with absolutely no issues ever. The woman always brings some awesome toys and he always steaks them and won't give them back for a while and she always gets pissed. I always try to catch him, get the toy back and he steals it repeatedly because he loves keep away and he's bigger and faster than the boxers. Then he gets bored.
Yesterday I held his collar after he stole it a few times and threw it right at both boxers who were right next to him. Apparently a mistake because next thing they were attacking him and he decided that he could take on both of them. The woman grabbed one and I guess decided that was it for her. He stopped once I yelled at him to knock it off and stood there but the loose boxer kept lunging and biting at him repeatedly which didn't calm him down, then I think the other one broke free and jumped back over. Didn't help. I finally yelled at the darn boxer in a mean voice to knock it off and he backed away. My dog knew he was in trouble by then.
So there's been too many incidents of him being a provocative jerk and getting other dogs mad and not backing down from a fight since the thyroid symptoms started.
Before the thyroid symptoms started he was easy going, wouldn't fight over a toy, would never fight a female and consistently run to me at any scuffle and stay with me for his treats. His recall was definitely improving in many places.
Now he's just reactive to anything from other dogs. He hadn't hurt any dogs and most of the time it's barking but it's ridiculous.
He doesn't like fetch and I can't walk or run much with my knee so can't exercise him enough unless he plays with other dogs which he normally loves.
How long before thyroid medication starts to work? Can just that make his behavior go back to normal?
tbtrakh (tbaby)
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Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3420
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2018 - 04:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He turned 3 in November. When I got him at sixteen months he hadn't been socialized at all so had to learn not to rush at other dogs and literally run into them but meet and smell appropriately but he had been pretty good for the past year. Loves puppies and small dogs, very gentle and tolerant. Most of his best buddies are females and a few other neutered large males. Loves to wrestle, plays fairly, alternated wrestling, lots of play bows and bouncy body language. Only got aggressive before when he had Lyme disease, stopped with two weeks of doxycycline. Or when had adverse reaction to benzodiazepines for separation anxiety.

Doggy daycare (2 different ones) love him and say he had no issues and gets along great with all sizes and kinds of dogs. But all dogs there are neutered. He used to just have issues with unneutered males and adolescents.
jcluvhrses (jcluvhrses)
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Posted on Monday, March 19, 2018 - 04:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sounds like the thyroid med's are making him hyper? Perhaps the dose needs to be reduced?
Everything is a choice.
tbtrakh (tbaby)
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Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3421
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2018 - 04:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He's not hyper though just overreactive. He still has a fraction of his usual energy. He literally sleeps all day and all night. At the park he won't play much and just walks around eating snow or ice or jumps up on the agility thing and sits with me. People keep asking me if he's older and saying how nice it must be to have such a calm mellow dog. His version of fetch even for the best squeaky ball lasts maybe five or six throws.
Even his best buddies get frustrated because he plays for a couple of minutes then walks away, or just won't play. They bark at him and jump on him and do all they can do get him to play.
He just stands or sits around, or now will run a little or now fights. Not good energy but still low energy.
If we don't go anywhere at all for a day like in the blizzard he's still mellow. He used to be crazy and knock me down if he was cooped up for a day.
Jackie Silverman (morskip)
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Username: morskip

Post Number: 1872
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2018 - 05:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If I had looked at the title of this thread I would have seen his age. Lol. He has just become an adult neutered or not he is establishing his place in the world. Lots of dogs will show dominance(thus the humping)and aggression at this age. Keep training. The more I have been reading about neutering it doesn't cut aggression as much as the rescues want you to think. And in females cuts estrogen, but testosterone increases and can make them more aggressive.
tbtrakh (tbaby)
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Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3422
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2018 - 06:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've read that about neutering too. He was apparently neutered early. I get that it's important to prevent unwanted litters but it doesn't sound like neutering helps most other issues, doesn't help the humoing. He can be a major pita with that but only with some dogs.
He's never done that to this female friend before and she definitely flipped out. That served him right, and for not listening when I told him to get off her.
He's been much more dominant in the park and in general. He's great with puppies and small dogs but takes no nonsense from adolescents or young dogs.
There's a young hound who he was great buddies with since this dog started going to the park at three or four months old. This dog was tiny then and my dog was very tolerant and used to just let the pup dangle off my dog's ears chewing and playing. Now other dog is a year and a half and doesn't play with dogs as much and has gotten possessive of toys and his owner. He snaps and growls and chases other dogs away. My dog is still much bigger so went up to his owner begging for treats. The younger dog tried to growl and chase him away and my dog postured and barked right in his face and chased him a step away from his own owner then sat right back down continuing to beg for treats. Kept acting fine and friendly after that, tail wagging. Other dog was all hesitant, slinking around for a while. Now he lets my dog share the owner and treats, no other dogs though lol.

But I heard hypothyroidism can cause aggression and he's had a sudden escalation with multiple incidents at the same time as the other symptoms. I can keep training but he already was well trained about not fighting and suddenly regressed. And fighting with female dogs is completely new.
Jackie Silverman (morskip)
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Username: morskip

Post Number: 1873
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2018 - 06:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It could be a combo of hypothyroidism and his age. And when I said keep training my opinion is training never stops with any dog. One of my dogs is reactive and will always be so. She goes to dog training camp with me along with my Schip (leaving next week)and I work her on leash but she is not allowed to socialize with other dogs.
tbtrakh (tbaby)
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Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3425
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2018 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree that training lasts lifelong with dogs or any animals for that matter. My last dog needed firm boundaries his whole life. Anything he could get away with he'd do and then push to just take over. Both my cats and both my horses are like that too, lovely.

Well we got through one day in the park without any battles or freedom dashes. He didn't seem like he wanted to do anything but sit there next to me or eat ice and it was freezing so we didn't stay long though. Also none of the problem dogs were there and no one had any squeaky toys. Luckily no boxers.

It really doesn't help when people bring the most appealing toys that all the dogs love. So many dogs have resource guarding issues it's stupid and just causes fights. Then the people get possessive too.

I bring my social dog to the dog park to play with other dogs. If I want him to play with me or his toys I bring him alone to a field or at home and away from other dogs and play with him there. Prevent conflicts and lets him focus on the toy, me or the other dog. I leave all his favorite squeaky toys in the car or at home unless we're alone there.
Just dumb.
I'm not saying it's ok for him to fight and I'm still going to train him more but why bring toys to encourage fights?
Jackie Silverman (morskip)
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Username: morskip

Post Number: 1874
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Even at home dogs will fight over toys. I am not surprised they would fight over them at a dog park.
dehda01 (dehda01)
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Username: dehda01

Post Number: 558
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well he is about ready for his 4-6 week first bloodwork to check his thyroid levels. That would be the first place to start. Make sure he hadnít kicked over to hyperthyroid.

Has he been checked for the tickborne diseases recently?
tbtrakh (tbaby)
Junior Member
Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3427
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes all the tickborne diseases were negative. Lyme was the first thing I thought of, since he was aggressive before when he had it.
He's only been on the med for just over two weeks. They're probably going to want to wait longer to recheck his levels. And he's still lethargic and pretty low energy so I'd be surprised if he was hyperthyroidism.
tbtrakh (tbaby)
Junior Member
Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3433
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 - 08:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Getting thyroid rechecked later today. He has a little more energy and actually found a ball and was carrying it around the park yesterday. So we played fetch and tug for a while til he lost interest. No more fights since the two boxers over a week ago. They haven't been back, at least not when I've been there.

I weighed him and he's gained four more pounds in the past three and a half weeks since he started the thyroid meds! Yikes! His collar's getting tight, he's got a huge neck now.
How do I get him to exercise if I can't make him play more and I can't run? Too much walking hurts my knee and he's better loose but not totally trustworthy.

He only eats one cup of dry food and one large can most days. I feel like I'm starving him as is. Sometimes he'll eat two cups of dry food. He's almost 90 pounds now! Vet said he was a bit overweight at 85 pounds.
Jackie Silverman (morskip)
Junior Member
Username: morskip

Post Number: 1876
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 - 03:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tie a toy to a lunge whip. You can stay still and he can exercise.
tbtrakh (tbaby)
Junior Member
Username: tbaby

Post Number: 3459
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 09:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good idea. No more fights since the boxers a few weeks ago. His thyroid levels were improved but not enough so his medicine was increased. He's back to his laid-back sunny disposition and playing and has more energy.
Also went down from 89 to 86 pounds despite eating more in just a couple of weeks. I guess since last I posted. Today at vet when I went to get him Frontline I weighed him and he was 86 pounds. The day of blood work he was 89 pounds on 3/28. Just over two weeks but he's been eating two to three cups of food daily plus his large can more days.

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